Mack

No support.

Drop trading works fine as it is.

I dont support it just because if omi eventually starts buffing the bosses and raids then TOB will not be on top of that list.

If cox and zulrah and other stuff gets buffed and reworked then we can circle back to TOB, as of right now it makes no sense to make tob harder whilst cox is literally beaten down to semi afk raid.

Definitely agree that there are other pieces of content that are in need of a rework far more than ToB but I don't think that should prevent fixes from being added to roadmap. Ultimately, Omicron decides on the priority of updates and if he can squeeze in smaller tweaks to content that don't consume as much development time in sooner than full revamps I don't think that's a bad thing.

 

 

no thanks, if you want to sweat go play osrs. these arent even essentially hard, its just making us spend more supplies healing to drag out the raid for what? considering hardly anyone already does tob, making it longer to stroke your own ego is a no thanks 

Rather contradictory to say you don't want to sweat but also claim that these changes aren't making the content any harder in back to back sentences, but I digress.  I'd agree that it's not adding a substantial amount of difficulty to the raid, more so a few extra mechanics that separate it from Normal Mode and add a bit of depth. Extending Verzik's enrage phase in Phase 3 certainly adds a bit of difficulty as its a more dangerous portion of the raid and most teams kill Verzik during webs without ever having to deal with half of her specials in P3 so this change would likely require teams to engage with those mechanics. Frankly not sure what updating content to be more in line with OSRS but still watered down for a RSPS has to do with ego but that's likely just a bit of projection. 

 

 

no support. the content is just hard enough to make it enjoyable without making it completely unapproachable to the average player. we aren't all 0.1% top players who sleep through all content in the game. if you find it too easy, go play osrs where its hard.

I disagree that these small changes would make Hard Mode unapproachable to regular players. And again these only apply to Hard Mode so the average player can still gain familiarity with the raid in Regular Mode and then learn a few more differences in the raid when doing Hard Mode. Both versions of the raid are miles from OSRS difficulty, and I'm not pushing to make the content 1:1.

 

 

 

While some of these adjustments seem okay, I more-so disagree with the overall mentality that we should be raising the difficulty on content and matching it exactly to OSRS just because people have mastered it. If someone wants to run HMT with the same mechanics as OSRS, then go play OSRS kekw...This is a private server, where HMT was probably intentionally coded to be watered down, as it should be.

 

• Maiden (increased damage after consecutive hits) - if I'm reading this correctly, you just have to swap tank every 2 hits. This mechanic would be more annoying than difficult.  No support
• Maiden (increased attack speed & dmg cap) - given how low Maiden's accuracy is, I don't think this will do all that much. If anything, her accuracy could be buffed in hmt Neutral
• Nylo (prinkipas) - I think this would be a very interesting addition. So this would mean there's 4 types of nylos that spawn pre-boss? I like that...Leaning towards Support
• Verzik P3 (30% heal at 5% hp left) - similar to the first suggestion, this seems more annoying than difficult. No support

 

Again, these changes do not bring HMT remotely close to OSRS difficulty. Dozens of mechanics are still left out which is fine for RSPS. The changes I've proposed would just give some distinction between the Normal and Hard Mode encounters in areas that currently are no different between the modes. Other rooms already contain distinctions like hands falling the entire time at Bloat, multiple players doing the maze at Sotetseg, two large balls at Sotetseg instead of one, etc.

 

• Maiden (increased damage after consecutive hits) - if I'm reading this correctly, you just have to swap tank every 2 hits. This mechanic would be more annoying than difficult.  No support
  • ​Agree that this isn't a super difficult mechanic, but it adds some depth to the room moving to cycle tanks as opposed to standing still shooting a tbow at the boss for 1-2 minutes for anyone that isn't freezing nylocas.
• Maiden (increased attack speed & dmg cap) - given how low Maiden's accuracy is, I don't think this will do all that much. If anything, her accuracy could be buffed in hmt Neutral
  • Fair point, Maiden is super inaccurate but this change would just make it more important to freeze nylocas properly. ​If Maiden is attacking up to twice as fast and has a higher max hit you're more likely to take more damage, especially when compacted with the double damage from 3+ consecutive hits. 
• Nylo (prinkipas) - I think this would be a very interesting addition. So this would mean there's 4 types of nylos that spawn pre-boss? I like that...Leaning towards Support
  • ​Yes, the Nylo princes are essentially demi-bosses that spawn on those static waves prior to the boss. Their HP scales based on team size so it just adds 
• Verzik P3 (30% heal at 5% hp left) - similar to the first suggestion, this seems more annoying than difficult. No support
  • ​I addressed this one in an earlier comment, I'd argue it definitely adds some difficulty as enrage Verzik with tornadoes active is a more challenging part of the raid and would likely lead to teams having to deal with yellows and the green ball which are normally skipped due to how fast Verzik is killed.

 

No support from me. At the end of the day, alora is a private server. It should be a little easier, have higher drop rates, and much of the content should be more easily accessible to the playerbase. If I wanted it to be exactly like os, I’d just go play os.

I'll echo what I've said above. These changes do not remotely bring the content inline with OSRS difficulty, the raid would still be significantly easier and leave out several mechanics in each room. These changes would just add a slight bit of difficulty and uniqueness to differentiate it from Normal Mode. 

What is your suggestion?:

To add a few more missing mechanics to Hard Mode ToB to make it more engaging and deserving of being called Hard Mode. Currently, Hard Mode isn't much more difficult than Normal Mode and can be completed nearly as quickly in good teams so there's little reason to do Normal Mode.

 

Proposed Mechanics to be added:

 

Maiden:

The Maiden's attacks will deal more damage after three consecutive auto-attacks on a single target. If an individual tanks more than two times in a row, the next hits will deal double damage. Tank must rotate regularly. 

 

When any Nylocas Matomenos reach the Maiden, they will increase her Attack speed along with healing her, up to a cap of 5. (1 tick per Nylo that reaches) The Maiden's damage cap is also increased, meaning she can hit faster and harder than the regular version when Nylocas Matomenos reach her and players step on blood spots during the fight.

Basic attack damage ~= 36.5+3.5(crabs leaked)

 

Nylo Waves:

Add the three Nylocas Prinkipas that spawn during pre-challenge waves. Nylocas Prinkipas works similarly to normal mode Vasilias (Nylo Boss), swapping styles. These spawn in the center of the room on the tenth, twentieth, and thirtieth waves.

https://oldschool.ru...locas_Prinkipas

 

Verzik P3:

Add Verzik's final stand mechanic as she reaches 5% or lower HP. 

 

Is this in OSRS?:

Yes, these mechanics are in OSRS.

 

Has this suggestion been accepted already?:

No, we left several mechanics out of the ToB Revamp proposed a few years ago.

 

How would this benefit Alora?:

End-game raids should be engaging, enjoyable, and rewarding. After the recent buffs to unique and kit rates, Hard Mode ToB finally feels rewarding, but the raid itself is still lackluster in difficulty compared to Regular Mode. There are relatively few mechanical differences between the bosses in each raid, so the slight variation in raid times comes from the differences in boss HP. In good teams, there's hardly any difference between raid times, so you might as well do Hard Mode for the chance at ornament kits, dust, and a better pet rate. These changes would help breathe some life into Normal Mode ToB but also make Hard Mode actually feel like a more difficult version of the raid with unique differences to Normal Mode.

 

 

Alora Record Times:

 

OSRS Record Times:

 

No support.

The blood fury requiring charges is the only thing that keeps its power balanced. Like Shado mentioned above, a much better solution would be to make blood shards more common or potentially introduce different methods to obtain them. 

Cringe custom pets before Huey, very cool!

No support. If OSRS adds them eventually then sure, but there's no need for more cringe custom pets that would just need to be changed down the road.

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I don't think its necessary to further buff the number of uses per contract now that dossiers are providing the proper amount of radiant contracts. I think a good compromise would be to have the demons in the Chasm of Fire also drop multiple contracts. This removes the RNG element of having to roll a dossier from Yama, along with it being a specific contract if you only need one specific type to finish the Purifying sigil. This would also be a decent AFK money maker for players that wish to sell desired contracts. 

Yama

 

I. Information

II. Combat Info and Stats
Combat Level: 1238
Max Hit: 46 (Auto-attacks), 121 (Meteor Strike), 80 (Shadow Stomp)
Weakness: Demonbane, Slash
Attack Style(s): Melee (Slash), Ranged, Magic
Attack Speed: Phase 1 & 2: 8 ticks (4.8 seconds), Phase 3: 7 ticks (4.2 seconds)

III. Gear Hierarchy and Inventory Setups
 Gear Hierarchy

 Inventory Setups

IV. Getting There

V. Fight Overview

VI. Contracts

 

 

Support, would like to see this at Yama as well as at Royal Titans to make rejoining fights more efficient and seamless. This is how the interface looks on OSRS.

No support.

 

Halberds currently work as they are intended to work. When using a 2 tile attack range melee weapon your distance from the NPC, and whether or not your character is running will determine whether you path next to an NPC or 1 tile away from it. With run enabled you will move two tiles per tick meaning odd tile distances path you next to an NPC and even distances will path you a tile away, provided the NPC has not moved since you began the action to attack. Seems more like a skill issue and lack of understanding of how these weapons work.

 

Nice personal attack, I wonder why you're not welcome to dissenting opinions from your own. The overwhelming majority of support on this thread illustrates a need for this.

Again "just get good" is not an argument when there's nobody running ToB 90% of the time. Why shouldnt high level players just enjoy hardmode and let newer, lesser skilled players have fun in NM with 1 or 2 of their friends instead of needing to find 3 or 4?

It's not just a lack of drive, it's demotivation from the fact that you have to keep 3+ people online for long periods of time often times with repeated wipes as you're learning. Not everyone is inside of a CC, not everyone has high level friends willing to take them.

I understand it can be hard for you and other high level players to emphasize with the perspective of a new player but if alora is meant to grow new players and those not in the high level community should have their opinions heard as they are here in this thread.

ToB is not the hardest content in the game, 500+ invo ToA, inferno, and soon™ DS2 awakened variants are.

Gnomonkeys is also my favorite streamer so at least we have that in common

Humorous remark considering you’ve made several personal attacks towards the boosters. The victim card bit is getting rather old from you.

Blind support from those that don’t understand the topic doesn’t make it a good choice for the game. A suggestion to make donator ranks cost half as much or to boost drop rates would probably get a ton of support but that doesn’t make it good idea.

“Get good” is in fact a valid argument, you being too lazy to do so doesn’t change that. Why should players that enjoy the raid and took the time to learn it be forced to only do hard mode because others refuse to put in minimal effort to learn the raid? That doesn’t seem very logical. You don’t reward players with a fang kit from a 150 ToA because it’s too hard and people don’t want to learn 500s or get the gear to do so.

And you continue to miss the point and fail to provide a valid response to the fact that 10% less HP per player will not result in more people being able to solo or duo. You whining about the raid being too difficult has nothing to do with the amount of HP in a duo raid.

If ToB isn’t the hardest content in game then players should have no issue learning it based on the number of fang kits you see in game. :)

10000% support on this. ToB has been dead content for a long time and the idea that players should just "get better" isn't really helpful when the opportunity for learning isn't the same as it was in the past. Nowadays if someone wants to learn there is nearly 0 chance of finding a team even at peak times, on bonuses the players who do ToB are less likely to take learners as well.


I think lowering not necessarily the raid difficulty overall but scaling - would help achieve this. (I would also support making the raid easier though, that's a different topic). This coming from a Comp'd GIM whos only remaining (reasonable) end game grind is ToB.

I'd also like to take a second to acknowledge that there seems to be an organized effort to vote down this suggestion even though the majority of the community seems to support it.

Some of those who do in fact own/are a part of an organized group that SELLS access to both ToB runs, achievements, AND learning. Wouldn't they have a vested interest in this not passing as they operate an in-game business that benefits from restricted access to ToB?

Not surprising to get such a clueless take from this individual.

The narrative that ToB is gatekept is frankly laughable. The only thing keeping people from learning ToB is themselves and a lack of drive or laziness. Everyone that is adept at ToB currently had to relearn parts of the raid when it was changed so it is no different for anyone else.

Boosters don’t sell the ability to learn ToB, the guide and vast resources on the internet are publicly available.Boosters do offer the option to get ToB kc for the diary if people desire to, just like players that don’t want to learn the Inferno can custom donate for a cape.

If you think people unable to complete a single raid or buying boosts are going to be capable of duoing raid with 10% less HP you are delusional. 90% of the comments on this thread are from those with little to no ToB kc that have not attempted or completed duos in their current form. If you are failing duos currently it’s because you lack knowledge or skill within the raid, not because the bosses have 10% more HP. Not to mention, the nylo as room is the main brick wall for solos and duos due to having random spawns instead of fixed. But only those that understand duos or solos would know that.

This reduced scaling was in the game for a month previously and nothing changed in the number of people doing duo or solo scales. It was the same people that were already capable of doing those scales.

If there is to be any change it should be a practice mode or entry variant for so people can practice Verzik, nylo, etc.

No support.

 

There's nothing wrong with the current scaling of TOB. After the nerf to Verzik's attacks you use next to no supplies throughout the entire raid in normal mode. The healing from a blood fury can completely negate the damage Verzik inflicts through prayer.

 

If it's "too rough" for you then you are doing something wrong and nerfing hitpoints isn't the solution to that. The tweak to HP isn't going to be the reason a duo completes or fails a raid, learning mechanics and playing strategically will. 

 

Claiming TOB is too difficult without 100% BIS weapons isn't remotely truthful. The Duo GM speed time is completable without scythe or twisted bow.

 

And like Neuro mentioned, continuously nerfing the raid isn't going to result in more people duoing or soloing TOB.