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Tome of Fire / Water



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Posted 25 June 2021 - 12:58 PM #1

Real Alan

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What is your suggestion?:

Allow the Tomes of Fire/Water to retain their full bonuses without degrading once a player stores X amount of pages.

 

Is this in OSRS?:

No, but adding this feature to Alora would be similar to the charging the blade of saeldor with crystal shards, god books with god pages, and abyssal whip with tentacle.  

 

Has this suggestion been accepted already?:

No.

 

How would this benefit Alora?:

This change would benefit players by making it easier to maintain the tomes in PVM.

Currently, the maintenance cost to constantly replenish pages discourages players from using the tomes.

It's a constant hassle that I think the community would rather have as a one time struggle.

Just have players collect 100, 500, or 1000 pages (max tomes hold in OSRS), and let them be done with it!

This will drive up the price of pages in the trading post and increase Tempoross/Wintertodt activity by giving players more of a reason to both collect pages and use their tomes.

 

Additional Information

You can expect just under 250 pages from 1000 permits at Tempoross (with drop booster)

At 70 seconds per permit, 250 pages is roughly a 20 hour grind.

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Screenshot courtesy of the amazing @Real Cheese



Posted 25 June 2021 - 02:58 PM #2

Sit
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Posted 25 June 2021 - 07:36 PM #3

Real Vikings
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I do not support this and i will say why, yes people will be doing temporas and wintertodt to fill their pages and perhaps sell off the pages, but after that initial hype, and after most the people have done that. the minigames will die off, and in the long run, it will make obtaining these way harder for ironmen and whatnot. I like the concept i just dont think its going to benefit, sure its going to make things easier, but 8months down the line, the minigame will be pretty dead, and those who cant simply buy those pages, are going to have a much tougher time.

 

Perhaps we could add these pages to the vote shop, or loyalty or even daily achievment shop to counter act it, make it easier to obtain. Not hating on this post. i love the iea but i wanna see the minigames being played and loved, and not being to hard for those future ironmen.



Posted 25 June 2021 - 10:05 PM #4

Real Alan

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in the long run, it will make obtaining these way harder for ironmen and whatnot

 

 

This is the main reason you cited for not supporting the suggestion.  Your reasoning?

 

 

 

those who cant simply buy those pages, are going to have a much tougher time.

 

 

You believe that players who cannot buy the pages are going to have a much harder time getting tomes/pages than they are already having now... why?  Im confused.

 

This suggestion doesn't change the method of obtaining the tome of fire / water or the pages.  That stays exactly the same.

 

It just allows players to use the tomes without worrying about charges once they have charged it once.

 

Arguing that this suggestion is going to make it harder for ironmen in the future to obtain tomes...  is like saying... 

 

... NOT having abyssal tentacle degrade... makes it harder for ironmen to obtain tentacles.

 

It makes no sense.

 

How are you going to say "I want to see the minigame played and loved" while simultaneously suggesting alternatives to the minigame (like adding pages to the vote, achievement, and loyalty shops)?  Putting pages in those shops is literally a work-around to doing the actual minigame. 

It would just give players less reason to participate in the minigame.  By the way, pages are already in the vote shop.  

 

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Posted 25 June 2021 - 11:02 PM #5

Real Denmark
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I support this



Posted 26 June 2021 - 12:55 AM #6

Antwerp
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I support this too. 

And @ Real Vikings : you know both minigames can be solo'd right? Heck, I even prefer to solo them both.



Posted 26 June 2021 - 08:23 AM #7

Real Vikings
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This is the main reason you cited for not supporting the suggestion.  Your reasoning?

 

 

 

 

 

You believe that players who cannot buy the pages are going to have a much harder time getting tomes/pages than they are already having now... why?  Im confused.

 

This suggestion doesn't change the method of obtaining the tome of fire / water or the pages.  That stays exactly the same.

 

It just allows players to use the tomes without worrying about charges once they have charged it once.

 

Arguing that this suggestion is going to make it harder for ironmen in the future to obtain tomes...  is like saying... 

 

... NOT having abyssal tentacle degrade... makes it harder for ironmen to obtain tentacles.

 

It makes no sense.

 

How are you going to say "I want to see the minigame played and loved" while simultaneously suggesting alternatives to the minigame (like adding pages to the vote, achievement, and loyalty shops)?  Putting pages in those shops is literally a work-around to doing the actual minigame. 

It would just give players less reason to participate in the minigame.  By the way, pages are already in the vote shop.  

 

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Then they should add the water ones to? its just my opinion, my thoughts behind making it harder on those who cant trade is, if theirs less people doing it games probably take longer like they do with zalcano ect ect. meaning i would just think its easier keeping the demand to play the game present. Keeping people going. just my opinion. Was not hating on your post by any means, just seems a shame to put the suggestion in when those people probably wont go back to wintertodt or tempora after recieving the pages needed for your suggestion should it passess.


I support this too. 

And @ Real Vikings : you know both minigames can be solo'd right? Heck, I even prefer to solo them both.

In theory most things can be solod but not everyone will be able to do it, in a decent time. iv tried wintertodt, zalcano and things like that solo and it feels so much longer than with a team, i personally just eh. i like the concept but would personally like to see people there is all im saying.



Posted 26 June 2021 - 12:42 PM #8

Real Alan

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if theirs less people doing it games probably take longer like they do with zalcano ect ect. meaning i would just think its easier keeping the demand to play the game present.

 

 

Probably going to take longer if less people are doing it?  You clearly haven't done much tempoross.

I understand that you're just voicing your opinion, but i'm going to let you know right now that your opinion is based off false pretenses.

 

As a guy who has collected over a thousand permits at Tempoross, I can assure you that it is significantly easier solo.

 

Why?  Because you only need to dump 20 fish per phase.

Since awarded permits are based entirely on points, you want to maximize your points rather than rush to kill tempoross.

That's something you absolutely cannot do in large groups.  

 

As for wintertodt, you're right.  That activity is better in groups.

But this suggestion is not going to take people away from wintertodt.  It's going to bring people to wintertodt.

@Real Denmark is one of those players that has done hundreds of wintertodt runs on his level 3 alt @Real Helping

Most of the time he's running solo because there is no "demand to play the game present".  Why?

 

Because there's little point.  It's better firemaking xp to just burn logs.  

Even if you do have a tome, you're discouraged from using it in PVM because of the page cost.

Nobody wants to spend 20 minutes slaying with tome just to spend another 40 minutes replenishing pages.

Furthermore, normal magics isn't strong enough to warrant use (even with surge runes now obtainable from pkp shop).

To make normal magics a reasonable alternative to ancient magics, you really need the increased spell damage from tomes.

 

This suggestion will give both new ironmen and current players a reason to do X wintertodt runs that way they can unlock an occasional 50% damage boost to their fire spells.

Like I said, it's like upgrading your whip to an abyssal tentacle.  That's plenty reason for players do kraken.  There will always be new players doing Kraken.

Just because the abyssal tentacle doesn't degrade, doesn't mean players who have already unlocked it will quit doing kraken.  

Simply put, there will always be new accounts that need the unlock, which will result in increased activity at both wintertodt and tempoross.

Trust me.  I've done my research.  I'm not basing my wintertodt/tempoross suggestion off of other minigames like Zalcano.

You're literally comparing apples to oranges here. 



Posted 26 June 2021 - 12:55 PM #9

PunchinADart
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I 1000% support this.

Especially the fact that in the ::shops tome of fire is shown as infinite fire runes with 50% damage boost, yet when you get it, you realise it still needs pages.
This would impact people donating for it, if it stated that if charged with pages, you get 50% dmg boost.
YES tome requires pages on oldschool etc, so why assume any different.
well, other charged items on here are not exactly the same. aka ibans doesn't require death runes if it's charged, trident only uses scales no runes etc.

And with the rate in which you aquire them to the rate you use them, it's not worth collecting them.
I would rather have to solo farm WT for 1k burnt pages to lock the book so it retains the dmg boost permanently or have to farm WT for an imbue scroll that can be used on tome, to have it perma filled etc.
 



Posted 26 June 2021 - 12:58 PM #10

Real Vikings
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i see your points, i personally struggle with tempora yes i havent done it much but having people there helps when they give advice on the fly as for kraken, the gear from that has so many uses for example, pking, enchanting tridents, tents, theirs so much more of a demand that keeps people grinding it so i dont thin thats a fair comparison. 



Posted 26 June 2021 - 01:17 PM #11

Real Alan

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i personally stuggle with tempora and its nice having people there.

 

 

You struggle with tempoross because you haven't learned the mechanics–not because you don't have enough help.

You're a maxed account.  If you had a concrete game plan, execution should be simple.

 

While you're worried about not having enough players with you to do a 1 man job...

...I'm trying to get this suggestion accepted, so the players who actually do wintertodt and tempoross can actually use their rewards out in PVM (without having to use vote points to buy pages)

 

If rewards have more use, it will only give players more reason to participate in the activity.  Essentially, we're on the same side here.

Just like how you slay kraken for more than 1 purpose (like enchanting trident / pet / slayer), there is more than 1 purpose in doing wintertodt and tempoross.

Players can sell their extra tomes/pages, and they can continue to do wintertodt/tempoross for phoenix/tiny tempur/blue heron pets.

Plus, there are skilling armor sets exclusive to these minigames.  

 

What my point?

Your claim that this suggestion will decrease minigame activity and make it more difficult for you in the future... is entirely false.

 

Also, the page cost to use tome DOES NOT encourage players with tome to go back to the respective minigames.

It just discourages them from using tomes in the first place.  



Posted 26 June 2021 - 01:45 PM #12

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i support this post



Posted 26 June 2021 - 03:36 PM #13

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Meh we can agree to disage

 

You struggle with tempoross because you haven't learned the mechanics–not because you don't have enough help.

You're a maxed account.  If you had a concrete game plan, execution should be simple.

 

While you're worried about not having enough players with you to do a 1 man job...

...I'm trying to get this suggestion accepted, so the players who actually do wintertodt and tempoross can actually use their rewards out in PVM (without having to use vote points to buy pages)

 

If rewards have more use, it will only give players more reason to participate in the activity.  Essentially, we're on the same side here.

Just like how you slay kraken for more than 1 purpose (like enchanting trident / pet / slayer), there is more than 1 purpose in doing wintertodt and tempoross.

Players can sell their extra tomes/pages, and they can continue to do wintertodt/tempoross for phoenix/tiny tempur/blue heron pets.

Plus, there are skilling armor sets exclusive to these minigames.  

 

What my point?

Your claim that this suggestion will decrease minigame activity and make it more difficult for you in the future... is entirely false.

 

Also, the page cost to use tome DOES NOT encourage players with tome to go back to the respective minigames.

It just discourages them from using tomes in the first place.  

we can agree to disagree, i dont do temporas because i dont enjoy it, if i learned im sure i could solo it, this is not making it easier on myself, more so  other people who are irons, you believe they wont be effected, but i believe they might. ultimatly i see no reason to change it, its a balance, causing people to either play more, or be careful were they use the tomes, and in using it encourages them to come back. we can agree to disagree, i see some of your points yes, but i feel like changes they've made in the past has been to try push the server to be similar to osrs, for example the slayer rework to name just one. i feel going through with this post will steer the direction in the oposit direction. you mentioned the use of ''had a concrete game plan, executions'' for the purpose of doing the game solo, but i feel that should be used when using the tomes themselves, figuring out were its worth using with the drain of pages, and doing it only there. sure the minigame can be soloable but its designed as a team boss, taking that away from it just doesnt seem right in my eyes.

 

if a player chooses not to use a tome because of the rate of pages it consumes, i dont believe we should change a way its been designed to cater to them also, my message ''i struggle with tempora'' was just to clear the accidental spam and wrote something short and sweet. point is. if it works the way it does i see no reason to change it. It works. it may not be convinient to use everywhere but thats probably how its intended. getting players to use initiative, and use it in very few situations, or use it everywhere at the expense of playing the minigame more.



Posted 26 June 2021 - 06:05 PM #14

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100% support :)



Posted 26 June 2021 - 06:46 PM #15

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I support this! Seems like a good addition to the fact that it can be difficult to get the tomb working. 

 

This will be an amazing QOL for ironmen. Since nobody is at tempoross when it is not an event ongoing. Only time it is possible to get the papers. I support it in the fact that it would help out ironmen. 


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Posted 26 June 2021 - 06:54 PM #16

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Would be a great qol update, since tempoross and wintertodt is kinda dead whenever there isent a "event". SUPPORT


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Posted 27 June 2021 - 04:39 PM #17

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+1 fully support.



Posted 28 June 2021 - 01:28 AM #18

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Yea if there was a way to grind for a perm tome of fire/water id probably use it, but I dont atm cause dont wana go back over and over to refill. support


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Posted 28 June 2021 - 02:23 AM #19

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I will support this because I like this change.



Posted 28 June 2021 - 06:44 AM #20

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I support this. It makes sense and the downside is negligible at best. 


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