19 replies to this topic

[Real Alan]

It's been 5 months since Alora's last house pet drop...

 

Starting in July, house pet is now obtainable from mahogany home and trading in curved/long bones.

 

Are the rates still too low?  Or is there just not enough community love for construction?

 

What will it take to bring this extinct species back to Alora?

[Detharrow26]

I traded like 8 curved and 90 long bones and didnt get it (also please note I have 200m xp so there should have been x15 more chance, but idk if it was coded in for this) I think the best way to get the pet is to make mahogany toy boxes or mahogany ladders (since omi confirmed rates are higher depending on level req) - people just don't do these maybe that's why few pets come in.

 

Adding to your game feedback, I do think it's kinda dumb that you'll get like 30 rock golems and 30 herons while maxing XP.

[Extremedanny]

I personally like the exclusive part of this pet. And not like everyone having 3p of them. However i would mind a small chance.

[Sassa fras]

No support, the rate should remain quite rare. Wouldn't mind seeing a pet hunt for it though, gives people a bit more motivation to grind it out.

[Detharrow26]

No support, the rate should remain quite rare. Wouldn't mind seeing a pet hunt for it though, gives people a bit more motivation to grind it out.

This is game feedback not a suggestion topic

[Amica]

I echo what @ Extremedanny said. The exclusivity of it and rarity is something I quite like.

[Classic]

I would have to agree with Extremedanny I like the idea of some pets being exclusive and hard to get. The house pet is a perfect example of it because its such a cool looking pet and the rarity of the pet adds to it. I don't mind a little boost for it, but at the same time if people are specifically trying to get the pet and not just train construction exp we have things in place to allow that to happen such as the 15x bonus at 200m and pet boosters which boost the rate along with the golden hammer which gives a 25% boost to the chance of the pet. Along with what Detharrow26 said the higher level required for the item the better chance to get the pet.

[Real Alan]

No support, the rate should remain quite rare. Wouldn't mind seeing a pet hunt for it though, gives people a bit more motivation to grind it out.

 

 

 

The exclusivity of it and rarity is something I quite like.

 

 

Just to be clear, this isn't a game suggestion for you to support or not support. 

I'm just trying to get a feel for what the community thinks.

 

I'm also not saying to make house pets common like golems, herons, and beavers. 

 

I just want them to be obtainable–similar to other rare pets like tangleroot and rift guardian.

 

Believe it or not, before I put in this suggestion , house pets weren't even obtainable from mahogany homes.

 

And let me remind you, mahogany homes are the new meta for construction.

 

As a community, it's our duty to make sure house pets remain rare, but a reasonable goal for players to aim for.

 

If the meta for construction has completely changed, perhaps we ought to adjust the pet drop rates as well.  

 

Keeping everything the way it is, in the name of rarity, may not always be the best solution.

 

With 0 house pets coming in from mahogany homes and curved/long bones since the last update and 0 house pets coming in from any method for almost half a year, I really urge you to start thinking.

 

Is this really a reasonably obtainable goal?

 

 

Dont believe me?  Fine.  Let's take a look at some concrete data.

 

Before the Mahogany Homes update patched the marble incense burner bug*, we had 2-4 house pets per month.

 

The patch changed building materials from 2 bolts of cloth + 2 steel bars... to... 2 marble blocks + 2 steel bars

 

 

What my point?  The frequency of new house pets has plummeted,

 

If a rare pet comes in 2-4 times per month, then stops coming in for 5 months straight after a big rework...

 

We've got an issue that's more than RNG.  

 

Side note - I think it's interesting how... many of the players who think the house pet drop rate is fine as is... are the same players who got their house pets via the marble incense burner bug. 

 

 

I personally like the exclusive part of this pet. And not like everyone having 3p of them. However i would mind a small chance.

 

 

 

In April 2020, there were 15 house pet dropped.  No wonder @ Extremedanny would rather the drop rate stay the same.

 

@ Mack would also like the house pet rate to stay the same.  Let's see how common house pets were when Mack got his

 

 

Hm... What about the month @ Classic g ot his house pet?  

 

You starting to see a pattern here yet?  Open your eyes! 

 

 

@ Omicron I'm tagging you because I think you should see this.

[Sassa fras]

Hi @ Real Alan , couple of things I'd like to touch on.

 

1. I'm someone who has 400m construction XP across a handful of accounts, and almost all of it was done with pet boosters + the golden hammer because I really wanted the pet. I've gotten a grand total of zero pets.

2. I am biased because I see the house pet as something that is extremely rare and should remain THE skill pet to grind for.

3. You are asking for community feedback for a continuation to your May 28 suggestion (i.e. reworking the chances of getting the House Pet from the current training meta) so I provided my response. You and Detharrow can claim all you want that this post is "only game feedback" and "not for you to support/not support", but in reality it's just another suggestion post to rework the pet rates but with a poll component. Moving on....

 

The main problem i have with this entire post, and your response, is that the pet chance rework has only been live for about three weeks, NOT five months. The title of the post is technically correct, that there have been no pets for five months!!  But looking closer, the reason there were no house pets from *roughly* late Feb to July 1 was because it just wasn't possible from the new training meta until the July 1 update.  Nobody could cheese 99/200m construction XP anymore due to the removal of incense burners (which was stupid easy, let's all be honest), so I suspect almost everyone was using Mahogany Homes to train from then onward.. which, as we already established, resulted in zero pets until Dan finally patched the issue in the July update.

 

So as I see it, what we have is three weeks of the rates being as they "should" be, and no pets. Considering the time gaps in pet drops in the Discord pics you provided, that's nothing crazy out of the ordinary, especially when you consider that fewer and fewer people are maxing their accounts/going for 200ms.

[Mack]

"Side note - I think it's interesting how... many of the players who think the house pet drop rate is fine as is... are the same players who got their house pets via the marble incense burner bug. "

 

Pretty cringe to assume this without any factual knowledge of how someone actually obtained the pet. I was well past 200m Construction when I obtained mine and received the pet from mahogany tables. Cheers on putting the ass in assumption.

[Real Alan]

"Side note - I think it's interesting how... many of the players who think the house pet drop rate is fine as is... are the same players who got their house pets via the marble incense burner bug. "

Pretty cringe to assume this without any factual knowledge of how someone actually obtained the pet. I was well past 200m Construction when I obtained mine and received the pet from mahogany tables. Cheers on putting the ass in assumption.

You’re completely right @ Mack . I’m sorry. I didn’t really word it the best way.
I jumped to conclusions and assumed everyone in a certain time period used the meta of that period, which isn’t necessarily the case, as with yourself. The point I was trying to make is... back when you got your house pet, house pets dropped a lot more frequently. I didn’t pay particular attention to whether you were 200m or not. That’s my mistake.

Now that you’re here though, I do have one question for you.
Would you be in favor of removing past house pets and making them an exclusive rare reward from mahogany homes?
This would be similar to what happened with herbi when Herbiboar was released.

[oijnmukfvrg]

I don't think there needs to be any changes to  be made to this pet, whatever it is boosting rates for it or whatever. It is currently fine the way it is. I rather have 1 skilling pet that is more rare than others and most definitely do not start removing it from everyone and adding only to mahogany home that is one of the most absurd things I heard for a while. This whole thread seems like a rant, because I can't get it we need to make it easier. I don't know why you need to get that badly a house with a chicken legs. I also think lack of house pets is because none hunting it actually after finishing construction expect like a few people.

[Real Alan]

I don't think there needs to be any changes to  be made to this pet, whatever it is boosting rates for it or whatever. It is currently fine the way it is. I rather have 1 skilling pet that is more rare than others and most definitely do not start removing it from everyone and adding only to mahogany home that is one of the most absurd things I heard for a while. This whole thread seems like a rant, because I can't get it we need to make it easier. I don't know why you need to get that badly a house with a chicken legs. I also think lack of house pets is because none hunting it actually after finishing construction expect like a few people.

It might come off as a rant, but I think I bring up some serious points for consideration.  Kind of like your cox suggestion, except I provide evidence.

At the end of the day, I'm not trying to suggest anything directly.  I just want to stir up conversation and brainstorm with the community.

I really don't care if i'm the one that gets the house pet.  I just want someone on Alora to get the house pet–someone to break that 5 month dry streak and prove it's still possible.

That's what brings us to question 2 in the polls.  Perhaps we can have a house pet hunt from mahogany homes to both encourage players to try new content and prove it's still possible.

From question 3, it seems pretty clear that the vast majority of the community have yet to try mahogany homes.  (3 who do vs 13 who dont)

 

Once again, I'm sorry if this comes off as a rant.  I really wanted to avoid that hence the feedback post instead of a suggestions post.

I'm also sorry that I'm so skeptical about drop rates.

If I wasn't skeptical from the start, the chance of house pet from mahogany homes would still be 0% today, and many of you would still say the same thing. 

"It's fine the way it is."

Plus, take a look at the Holy Ornament Kit from hard mode TOB.

The update notes imply that it's a 50/50 between Holy / Sanguine, yet in reality it's impossible to get the Holy Ornament Kit.

How do I know this?  Because I maintain a healthy level of skepticism and speak up when I notice unusual patterns.  I really hope you can try to understand where I'm coming from.

 

As evidence, here's a recent bug report I made based on a hunch that turned out to be a very important fix. 

Hi @ Real Alan , couple of things I'd like to touch on.

 

1. I'm someone who has 400m construction XP across a handful of accounts, and almost all of it was done with pet boosters + the golden hammer because I really wanted the pet. I've gotten a grand total of zero pets.

2. I am biased because I see the house pet as something that is extremely rare and should remain THE skill pet to grind for.

3. You are asking for community feedback for a continuation to your May 28 suggestion (i.e. reworking the chances of getting the House Pet from the current training meta) so I provided my response. You and Detharrow can claim all you want that this post is "only game feedback" and "not for you to support/not support", but in reality it's just another suggestion post to rework the pet rates but with a poll component. Moving on....

 

The main problem i have with this entire post, and your response, is that the pet chance rework has only been live for about three weeks, NOT five months. The title of the post is technically correct, that there have been no pets for five months!!  But looking closer, the reason there were no house pets from *roughly* late Feb to July 1 was because it just wasn't possible from the new training meta until the July 1 update.  Nobody could cheese 99/200m construction XP anymore due to the removal of incense burners (which was stupid easy, let's all be honest), so I suspect almost everyone was using Mahogany Homes to train from then onward.. which, as we already established, resulted in zero pets until Dan finally patched the issue in the July update.

 

So as I see it, what we have is three weeks of the rates being as they "should" be, and no pets. Considering the time gaps in pet drops in the Discord pics you provided, that's nothing crazy out of the ordinary, especially when you consider that fewer and fewer people are maxing their accounts/going for 200ms.

I completely agree with you that the house pet "should remain THE skill pet to grind for."

But you have to understand... a 5 month long dry streak could be very discouraging to new players.

Many new players don't even know of the house pet's existence because it's never on yell.  No one has been able to find one!  Has it gone extinct?

Why would a new player drop a pet booster for a house pet, when no one's been able to do it for 5 months?

I'd honestly tell a new player to just use your pet boosters elsewhere... unless there is a House Pet Hunt going on of course @Moe  

When wintertodt was released there was a phoenix hunt.  When Tempoross was released there was a tiny tempur hunt.

It only make sense to have a House Pet hunt from Mohagany homes now that they're actually obtainable.

I'm really curious why 7 out of 16 people do not support a house pet hunt.  If you're one of those, please share some insight on your reasoning!

 

Besides, Alora could really benefit from giving the house pet some more attention. 

A house pet drop on yell every once in awhile could give players the hope they need to join the hunt themselves and pop some boosters of their own, thereby supporting the server.

 

Also, regarding the point you mentioned in 3, I really urge you to read what I wrote to @ 2 above and try to look at it from a different perspective.

If nothing gets said.  Nothing gets fixed.  I just want to bring attention to an unusual pattern I've noticed and brainstorm on potential solutions.

 

Lastly, regarding your main problem with the post, I completely understand where you're coming from.  A 3 week period is absolutely a short window.

But if you were in my shoes, at what point would you have rung the alarm?  1 month?  3 months?  6 months? 

 

I shouldn't have to worry about whether people support or don't support my feedback.  I'm just bringing attention to an unusual pattern.

 

Like what I say or not, I think we need more people in the community to speak up and voice their feedback... instead of complaining "shit game" or "staff are useless"

[Lerak]

I dont own a house pet and never used the marble incense bug that @ Mack mentioned. I do still agree with @ Extremedanny and @ Amica that it is nice to have an exclusive skilling pet. But like you mentioned @ Real Alan , a change in the droprate is, in my opinion, only necessary if the recent update is not implemented correctly.

[Real Alan]

I dont own a house pet and never used the marble incense bug that @ Mack mentioned. I do still agree with @ Extremedanny and @ Amica that it is nice to have an exclusive skilling pet. But like you mentioned @ Real Alan , a change in the droprate is, in my opinion, only necessary if the recent update is not implemented correctly.

 

I too agree with all of these points. 

 

Ideally, I'd want the house pet to be a similar rarity as tangleroot and rift guardian. 

 

How do you feel about that?  Would you support a house pet hunt to prove it actually is coded correctly? 

 

And would you be more likely to pop a pet booster yourself during mahogany homes if you had seen someone else get one in yell?

[Omicron]

There's no problem with the house pet, it's simply a very rare pet to obtain, probably the rarest in the game. Also, the idea that we'd wipe it from anyones account and make it a mahogany homes exclusive pet is not something we'd ever consider, because there'd be no point in doing that besides outraging players who've gotten it already. We did it with Herbiboar because the rate of the Herbiboar pet was bugged, and it was never meant to be obtainable from herblore. The House pet rates haven't changed at all in the past few years (probably since release), the only thing that changed was that we added the ability to get it from mahogany homes, and trading in curved/long bones. If you want better odds at getting the pet, here are some tips:

 

1. Have 200m experience in construction - this, as with most other Skilling Pets, will increase your chance to get the house pet by 15x.

 

2. Use pet drop scrolls.

 

3. Use a golden hammer - this increases your chances to get the house pet by 25%.

 

4. Build higher level objects in your home, or do higher level mahogany homes contracts. The multiplier is based on the level of the object you're building, so perhaps unsurprisingly, building higher level objects increases the chance for a pet.

 

At the end of the day, it is a very rare pet, and you may not get it until you reach 200m exp, or even after, but it is definitely possible to get it.

[Real Alan]

Thank you for the additional information @omicron 

 

2. Use pet drop scrolls.

 

 

Am I understanding this correctly?

 

Bonuses

1. 200m xp ->  x15

2. pet scroll -> x0.25

3. golden hammer -> x0.25

 

Do these bonuses stack stack additively or multiply?

 

Also, using level 70 mahogany homes contracts that require mahogany planks, what is the approximate drop rate before any bonuses are applied?   

 

1/x?  

[Omicron]

Thank you for the additional information @omicron 

 

 

 

 

 

Am I understanding this correctly?

 

Bonuses

1. 200m xp ->  x15

2. pet scroll -> x0.25

3. golden hammer -> x0.25

 

Do these bonuses stack stack additively or multiply?

 

Also, using level 70 mahogany homes contracts that require mahogany planks, what is the approximate drop rate before any bonuses are applied?   

 

1/x?  

 

The reason we don't get into the numbers is because the calculations can get pretty complex and it just makes things more difficult to understand, but I'll try to provide some more information. There are two multiplicative steps, all of the factors "stack", but they're applied at different points in time.

 

The first multiplicative step is the skill multiplier (we're assuming you're building a piece of furniture here).

 

The skill variable is determined by the level requirement of what you're building, essentially you'll be between 0.25 and 0.55 for this value, 0.55 being a level 99 piece of furniture and 0.25 being a level 50 piece of furniture.

 

The golden hammer takes that rate and multiplies it by 25%. (If 0.55, it is now 0.6875)

 

Then this rate is multiplied by 0.0075, which is the actual house pet rate. (Following the previous value, 0.005156)

 

Our first multiplicative step is complete, this is the one that's unique to the House pet. The next step below applies to all pets (except boss pets).

 

 

 

Our secondary multiplier variable is 1.25x if you have a pet booster, and a further 10% or 15% for Immortal/Eternal donators. (Up to 1.35x here)

 

Lastly, if you have 200m XP, that rate is multiplied by 15x.

 

We can now take the first number we obtained (0.005156) and multiply it by our second multiplier (1.35x or 20.25x). So we either have (0.0069606) for those who don't have 200m XP, or (0.104409) if you do. Those are approximately the best rates for the House pet on a single action (on one single build action build).

 

The roll is between 0 and 100, so there's a ~1/1000 chance on a build if you have 200m XP and the very best boosts, or 1/15,000 chance with boosts and non-200m XP. Since you can build ~500 pieces of furniture per hour if your clicks are accurate, you have quite a few attempts to roll while training. The pet is meant to be rare, but if you have the proper boosts and 200m XP, it isn't entirely unattainable.

[Real Alan]

Let me see if I understand this correctly.  You ran the sample using 0.55 for level 99 construction furniture.

 

However, players will really be building level 70 construction furniture in mahogany homes.

 

Based on 0.25 for level 50 furniture and 0.55 for level 99 furniture, I estimate level 70 furniture would be around 0.3833

 

So assuming we're doing level 70 mahogany homes contracts...

 

The skill variable would roughly be around 0.3833.  

 

Multiply that by the golden hammer -> 0.383 x 0.25 = 0.4791

 

Multiply that by the actual house pet rate (0.0075) -> 0.4791 x 0.0075 = 0.003594 % chance for house pet from single action

 

Take the inverse -> (0.003594/100)^-1 = ~27,826 actions per house pet ... if you're still grinding towards 200m and dont have infinite pet boosters (average player)

 

Divide by 500 contracts per hour -> 27,826 / 500 = 55.66 hour investment per house pet... assuming you can actually get in 500 actions per hour, which you can't (at least not in mahogany homes)

 

This is what my xp tracker looked like after 2 hours of efficient mahogany homes

Anyways... Multiply by 15,000 gp per plank and 2 planks per action -> 27,826 x 15,000 x 2 = ~834m gp necessary for a grind that will result in 1+ house pet 63.23% of the time.  Damn.  Thanks for the specifics @ Omicron !

[Commonly]

House lives matter!