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Posted 11 September 2021 - 05:45 PM #1

Laardii
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What is your suggestion?: Tweaking ToB HM rewards

Is this in OSRS?: Yes

Has this suggestion been accepted already?: Not that I know of

How would this benefit Alora?: 
Making drop rates closer to OSRS rates would bring more of an 1:1 feel. Whilst I've enjoyed seeing more purples in HM than in regular ToB, rates seem to be a bit off based on the data I got from #game_news channel on Alora discord. 
As of now, we have seen these drops from ToB HM:
- Total amount of drops so far: 228
- Avernic defender hilt: 23
- Holy/Sanguine kits: 26
- Justiciar faceguard: 42
- Justiciar chestguard: 36
- Justiciar legguards: 35
- Sanguinesti staff: 31
- Ghrazi rapier: 28
- Scythe of Vitur: 7
Based on numbers and explanation of drop rates @Omicron posted on another topic 
https://www.alora.io...s/#entry409538 there should've been a 27% increase of "good loot" drops, these being weapons and Justiciar pieces. On OSRS regular ToB rates these items are on a rate of 2/19 when hitting the drop table. Currently, Justiciar pieces have drop rate close to 1/6 (~3,15/19) on average per piece, when Ghrazi rapier and Sanguinesti staff have an average drop rate of around 1/8 (~2,4/19). Compared to OSRS regular ToB rates where Scythe of Vitur has a drop rate of 1/19 when hitting the table, Aloras current rate on HM is closer to 1/33. 

Based on these numbers, mentioned 27% boost on the "good loot" table only seems to make Justiciar pieces 3/19 instead of 2/19 when hitting the table. 

I have two possible changes for the droprates:
1. Using the rolls currently allocated to Holy/Sanguine kits to be used on Avernic/Rapier/Sanguinesti rolls, since Justiciar and these two weapons should have the same weight on the drop table.

1 - Scythe of Vitur

3 - Ghrazi rapier
3 - Sanguinesti staff
3 - Justiciar faceguard
3 - Justiciar chestguard
3 - Justiciar legguards
3 - Avernic defender hilt

2. If the first suggestion lowers the Avernic rate too much, doubling the amount of rolls on the table and using following weightings:
3 - Scythe of Vitur
5 - Ghrazi rapier

5 - Sanguinesti staff
5 - Justiciar faceguard
5 - Justiciar chestguard
5 - Justiciar legguards
10 - Avernic defender hilt



Posted 11 September 2021 - 08:46 PM #2

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Yes fully support. ty for taking the time to make this post!


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Posted 11 September 2021 - 08:48 PM #3

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Thanks for putting the time in to make this post, I fully support.


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Posted 11 September 2021 - 08:55 PM #4

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I support a change in tob rates the amount of research you put into this is crazy. Thank you! 


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Posted 11 September 2021 - 09:26 PM #5

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Thanks for putting your time into this post! Support to the changes, hopefully with this i can get a scythe 8-)


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Posted 11 September 2021 - 11:13 PM #6

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Fully support, well thought out, put together and did math's from what is already in game. Much needed.


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Posted 12 September 2021 - 12:03 AM #7

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No, support. All this is based on a miniscule sample of 228, forgot to account rng is a thing. The rates seem off and not "1:1" to osrs because Omi has generously granted us a drop boost on weps and armor. So if you really want a 1:1 feel the first thing you should be suggesting it to remove any drop boosts entirely.


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Posted 12 September 2021 - 05:10 AM #8

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SUPPORT, OMICRONS CODING IS SCUFFED AF ESPECIALLY AT THEATRE OF BLOOD SO PLEASE FIX YOUR SHIT 

 

thanks


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Posted 12 September 2021 - 06:28 AM #9

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No, support. All this is based on a miniscule sample of 228, forgot to account rng is a thing. The rates seem off and not "1:1" to osrs because Omi has generously granted us a drop boost on weps and armor. So if you really want a 1:1 feel the first thing you should be suggesting it to remove any drop boosts entirely.

I don't even know where to start with this one, but only reason I'm using regular ToB rates from OSRS is that they haven't released HM rates there. They said that Avernic droprates have been reduced and drop rates for weapons and armour have been increased, it's not just an Alora thing. For the rest that you are trying to say, I won't even comment because it's not related to the topic whatsoever.



Posted 12 September 2021 - 08:41 AM #10

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As a fellow mathematician, I support this.


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Posted 12 September 2021 - 10:49 AM #11

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Thanks for creating this suggestion, @Laardii!

 

The rates indeed seem a bit off at the moment and should be looked into. The first option makes the Hilt as rare as others excluding the Scythe which was not the point (in OSRS anyway) and the second option may make the Scythe rate slightly too high IMO. Right now it seems that regular mode ToB has these weightings:

Scythe of Vitur: 1
Ghrazi rapier: 2
Sanguinesti staff: 2
Justiciar faceguard: 2
Justiciar chestguard: 2
Justiciar legguard: 2
Avernic defender hilt: 8

 

meaning that getting Justiciar or the rapier/Sang staff is literally same rarity meanwhile the Avernic is the most common. At the moment, however, HM ToB seems to have these weightings:

 

Scythe of Vitur: 1
Ghrazi rapier: 2
Sanguinesti staff: 2
Justiciar faceguard: 3
Justiciar chestguard: 3
Justiciar legguard: 3
Avernic defender hilt: 2

Ornament kits: 3

 

meaning that Justiciar is more common than everything else (except the ornament kits which will be removed from the table, referring to https://www.alora.io...ts/#entry409538) which does not really make sense if you compare to the regular mode ToB rates.

 

I propose that for HM ToB they give 95 rolls on the rare drop table with the corresponding weightings:

Scythe of Vitur: 6
Ghrazi rapier: 13
Sanguinesti staff: 13
Justiciar faceguard: 13
Justiciar chestguard: 13
Justiciar legguard: 13
Avernic defender hilt: 24

 

This would make it more in line to the regular mode and it would increase the rarity of the hilt (from 8/19 to 24/95) compared to the other uniques thus making the "good loot" slightly more common but keeping Justiciar, Rapier and Sang staff the same rarity (3/19 to 13/95) like they are in regular mode ToB. Overall, need to keep in mind that getting any Justiciar piece would still be the most common drop since there are 3 of them. Hopefully I explained what I was going for here clearly enough.

 

Support!



Posted 12 September 2021 - 01:23 PM #12

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Making drop rates closer to OSRS rates would bring more of an 1:1 feel

 

THEN MOVE TO OSRS, fuck those rates. Reason we all quit osrs.  



Posted 12 September 2021 - 02:50 PM #13

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I have two possible changes for the droprates: 1. Using the rolls currently allocated to Holy/Sanguine kits to be used on Avernic/Rapier/Sanguinesti rolls, since Justiciar and these two weapons should have the same weight on the drop table. 1 - Scythe of Vitur 3 - Ghrazi rapier 3 - Sanguinesti staff 3 - Justiciar faceguard 3 - Justiciar chestguard 3 - Justiciar legguards 3 - Avernic defender hilt 2. If the first suggestion lowers the Avernic rate too much, doubling the amount of rolls on the table and using following weightings: 3 - Scythe of Vitur 5 - Ghrazi rapier 5 - Sanguinesti staff 5 - Justiciar faceguard 5 - Justiciar chestguard 5 - Justiciar legguards 10 - Avernic defender hilt

 

 

Let me see if I'm understanding this correctly.

 

Holy / Sanguine ornament kits just got removed from the 1-19 rare loot roll table thanks to Sagacious's suggestion.

Since the ornament kits are now going to be removed, it rolls (15-17) will be given to avernic hilts, meaning roll 15-19 will all yield hilts. 

 

Laardi is suggesting to instead give roll 15 to sang, roll 16 to rapier, and roll 17 to avernic hilt.  

So the table would look somewhat like this...

 

Roll 1 - helm

Roll 2 - helm

Roll 3 - helm

Roll 4 - body

Roll 5 - body

Roll 6 - body

Roll 7 - legs

Roll 8 - legs

Roll 9 - legs

Roll 10 - scythe

Roll 11 - sang

Roll 12 - sang

Roll 13 - rapier

Roll 14 - rapier

Roll 15 - sang

Roll 16 - rapier 

Roll 17 - hilt 

Roll 18 - hilt
Roll 19 - hilt

 

1/19 chance at scythe

3/19 chance for all other uniques

 

As opposed to... 

 

Roll 1 - helm

Roll 2 - helm

Roll 3 - helm

Roll 4 - body

Roll 5 - body

Roll 6 - body

Roll 7 - legs

Roll 8 - legs

Roll 9 - legs

Roll 10 - scythe

Roll 11 - sang

Roll 12 - sang

Roll 13 - rapier

Roll 14 - rapier

Roll 15 - hilt

Roll 16 - hilt

Roll 17 - hilt 

Roll 18 - hilt
Roll 19 - hilt

 

1/19 chance for scythe

2/19 chance for sang/rapier

3/19 chance for justiciar helm/body/legs

5/19 chance for hilt

 

-----------------------------------------------------------

So under what laardi has suggested...

1. scythe stays just as rare

2. justiciar stays just as rare

3. sang/rapier are 5.26% more common (3 roll out of 19 instead of 2)

4. hilts are 10.53% more rare (3 rolls out of 19 instead of 5)

5. all non-scythe uniques will have same rate (3 rolls out of 19)

 

Too lazy to breakdown Laardi's possibility 2 unless people want me to, but basically... 

That suggestion would make scythe more common since doubling rolls should give it 2/38 chance instead of 3/38. 



Posted 12 September 2021 - 03:08 PM #14

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An interesting read, curious on the outcome!


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Posted 13 September 2021 - 11:28 AM #15

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I support the idea! Drop rates have to be relooked.


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Posted 13 September 2021 - 12:05 PM #16

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I don't even know where to start with this one, but only reason I'm using regular ToB rates from OSRS is that they haven't released HM rates there. They said that Avernic droprates have been reduced and drop rates for weapons and armour have been increased, it's not just an Alora thing. For the rest that you are trying to say, I won't even comment because it's not related to the topic whatsoever.

They said that they made the ratio of Avernic to other uniques slightly lower, so that automatically excludes your Option 1 as it proposes that weapons, excl. scythe , and amour are same rate as hilt (as @Sagacious also pointed out already).

 

I also agree with @Sagacious that Option 2 would make the Scythe drop rate too high.


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Posted 13 September 2021 - 01:08 PM #17

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They said that they made the ratio of Avernic to other uniques slightly lower, so that automatically excludes your Option 1 as it proposes that weapons, excl. scythe , and amour are same rate as hilt (as @Sagacious also pointed out already).   I also agree with @Sagacious that Option 2 would make the Scythe drop rate too high.

 

 

I agree with you on option 2 being too overpowered...

But, for option 1, I think avernic hilt just needs to be less common than it is in regular tob.

 

Here's how I believe the rolls work for regular tob.

 

Roll 1 - helm

Roll 2 - helm

Roll 3 - body

Roll 4 - body

Roll 5 - legs

Roll 6 - legs

Roll 7 - sang

Roll 8 - sang

Roll 9 - rapier

Roll 10 - rapier

Roll 11 - scythe

Roll 12 - hilt

Roll 13 - hilt

Roll 14 - hilt

Roll 15 - hilt
Roll 16 - hilt

Roll 17 - hilt

Roll 18 - hilt
Roll 19 - hilt

 
As you can see, the chance of landing on hilt for regular tob is 8/19.
 
Option 1 would, in fact, make the HM TOB drop rate of avernic hilt less common at 3/19.


Posted 13 September 2021 - 02:39 PM #18

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THEN MOVE TO OSRS, fuck those rates. Reason we all quit osrs.  

This just shows me that you either did not read the topic or just didn't understand anything you read.

 

Let me see if I'm understanding this correctly.

 

Holy / Sanguine ornament kits just got removed from the 1-19 rare loot roll table thanks to Sagacious's suggestion.

Since the ornament kits are now going to be removed, it rolls (15-17) will be given to avernic hilts, meaning roll 15-19 will all yield hilts. 

 

Laardi is suggesting to instead give roll 15 to sang, roll 16 to rapier, and roll 17 to avernic hilt.  

So the table would look somewhat like this...

 

Roll 1 - helm

Roll 2 - helm

Roll 3 - helm

Roll 4 - body

Roll 5 - body

Roll 6 - body

Roll 7 - legs

Roll 8 - legs

Roll 9 - legs

Roll 10 - scythe

Roll 11 - sang

Roll 12 - sang

Roll 13 - rapier

Roll 14 - rapier

Roll 15 - sang

Roll 16 - rapier 

Roll 17 - hilt 

Roll 18 - hilt
Roll 19 - hilt

 

1/19 chance at scythe

3/19 chance for all other uniques

 

As opposed to... 

 

Roll 1 - helm

Roll 2 - helm

Roll 3 - helm

Roll 4 - body

Roll 5 - body

Roll 6 - body

Roll 7 - legs

Roll 8 - legs

Roll 9 - legs

Roll 10 - scythe

Roll 11 - sang

Roll 12 - sang

Roll 13 - rapier

Roll 14 - rapier

Roll 15 - hilt

Roll 16 - hilt

Roll 17 - hilt 

Roll 18 - hilt
Roll 19 - hilt

 

1/19 chance for scythe

2/19 chance for sang/rapier

3/19 chance for justiciar helm/body/legs

5/19 chance for hilt

 

-----------------------------------------------------------

So under what laardi has suggested...

1. scythe stays just as rare

2. justiciar stays just as rare

3. sang/rapier are 5.26% more common (3 roll out of 19 instead of 2)

4. hilts are 10.53% more rare (3 rolls out of 19 instead of 5)

5. all non-scythe uniques will have same rate (3 rolls out of 19)

 

Too lazy to breakdown Laardi's possibility 2 unless people want me to, but basically... 

That suggestion would make scythe more common since doubling rolls should give it 2/38 chance instead of 3/38. 

Don't know why you are just repeating my words here but you do you.

 

They said that they made the ratio of Avernic to other uniques slightly lower, so that automatically excludes your Option 1 as it proposes that weapons, excl. scythe , and amour are same rate as hilt (as @Sagacious also pointed out already).

 

I also agree with @Sagacious that Option 2 would make the Scythe drop rate too high.

You do realize we are currently closer to double the drop rate on scythes from HM ToB compared to REGULAR mode ToB in OSRS? If you are agreeing with @Sagacious proposal, do you realize that the difference between our proposals is around 1,5% and his proposal makes the rest of the "good loot" cover even bigger portion of the table?

 

 

I agree with you on option 2 being too overpowered...

But, for option 1, I think avernic hilt just needs to be less common than it is in regular tob.

 

Here's how I believe the rolls work for regular tob.

 

Roll 1 - helm

Roll 2 - helm

Roll 3 - body

Roll 4 - body

Roll 5 - legs

Roll 6 - legs

Roll 7 - sang

Roll 8 - sang

Roll 9 - rapier

Roll 10 - rapier

Roll 11 - scythe

Roll 12 - hilt

Roll 13 - hilt

Roll 14 - hilt

Roll 15 - hilt
Roll 16 - hilt

Roll 17 - hilt

Roll 18 - hilt
Roll 19 - hilt

 
As you can see, the chance of landing on hilt for regular tob is 8/19.
 
Option 1 would, in fact, make the HM TOB drop rate of avernic hilt less common at 3/19.

 

You do you.



Posted 13 September 2021 - 02:46 PM #19

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Don't know why you are just repeating my words here but you do you.

 

 

This is a game suggestion.  I'm breaking down your game suggestion into smaller components to better understand the pros/cons of each option.

 

There are 4 different rates to consider here...

- Current TOB rates 

- Current HM TOB rates

- Accepted suggestion (sagacious's) new TOB HM rates 

- Laardi's suggested TOB HM rates

 

 

It's not a matter of "you do you or not."

 

I'm just providing input on TOB rates, regarding what you're suggesting.

 

Just say "thanks."  All discussion regarding the game suggestion should be welcome... 

 

I'm not trying to butt heads here. 

 

Personally, I think I've laid everything out for the community on how the 1-19 rolls work–something this post really needs to be clear on.



Posted 13 September 2021 - 03:26 PM #20

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Extremely good and very detailed suggestion. Huge support from me


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