24 replies to this topic

[Real Alan]

What does it mean to be an ironman?

 

Normal game play -> take away the ability to trade -> gives you ironman game play

 

    Ironman game play -> take away the ability to bank -> ultimate ironman game play

 

    Ironman game play -> take away the ability to die -> hardcore ironman game play

 

    Ironman game play -> add a partner -> elite ironman game play

 

    Ironman game play -> add up to 4 partners -> group ironman game play

 

All of these game modes share the ironman concept of no trading. 

 

If that is the case, why do we allow buying and selling of GIM/EIM items?

 

That feature isn't on OSRS.  It also goes against the integrity of playing as an ironman.

 

If people can argue... Realism is too much like ironman... merge it with Normie...

 

The opposite can be said... GIM/EIM is too little like ironman (if you can openly buy/sell ironman items on yell/forums)... merge it with Normie... 

 

I don't play GIM/EIM, but I'm a member of the community, so according to Ivy logic, my opinion is justified.  

 

Auto merge the banks of anyone who bought/sold gim/eim items.  How does that make you feel?

 

 

 

[Brambo]

Thankyou for explaining ironman game modes

[Hellish]

The damage is long-done, allowing trades = profit for a business. No point bringing this up now tbh

[Krest]

Honestly not sure what this post is or why you feel the need to keep going and going? Starting to get a little weird & turning into an obsession. If you ever need to talk to someone I am here for you.

[Tauri]

playing and banking and trading and banking and playing

 

this is the game we play and all of us have the freedom to choose their way of playing the game (gotta make sure to not break the rules), whether rest of the community appreciates it or not

 

EIM was released in 2018, GIM in 2019, wouldn't make sense to start putting in more effort to resolve those issues starting 2023.

 

Additionally, there are some limiting factors added which makes it more difficult to sell/buy those ironmen items, personally havent sold or bought any of the items over those 4 years and it doesn't bother me if others will.

[Arclow]

Sometimes it feels like you just get really bored and put a topic up to create attention.

[H]

Personally I don't like how all the different game modes have different experience rates as well as being able to sell stuff to each other, like you said it takes away from the "ironman" point of the mode. But it is what it.

 

As for your realism merge/ironman merge argument. Ironmen 99% of the time sell gear to each other, and it requires a lot more effort and money to do so. 

A realism account can simply trade other realism accounts for anything to progress, so I guess there's a bit of a difference there. 

[Ivy]

Let's face it, the realism merge topic has been dead since the suggestion got declined. Which for the realism community is a good thing!

Posting out of spite isn't the best look, which I'm sure myself and others can see, that's what this post is.

Because were having a discussion on game mode experiences, I think you forgot to add in swapping realism -> normie and vice versa. Because essentially that should be changed as well, because that's not a true "realism" experience.

Feel free to make a suggestion if you genuinely believe this would be benifical,i'm looking forward to it.https://www.alora.io.../3-suggestions/

[Ultra Ball]

I will remain neutral until we get some feedback from the Alora Veterans.

[Tbow Loc]

That ship sailed long ago

[Chris]

This is water under the bridge bub. As stated above explains this perfectly

[South LDN]

I agree. These GIMS have ruined the ironman experience

[strudelle]

the best way to solve this is to merge all game modes!


we could all become realisms hardcore group ironmans.

 

 

but if you die, your bank get wipe out.

[Selenagomez]

While I agree selling gim/eim items should not be a thing. You are incorrect that it is not in osrs. You can sell unranked gim banks on osrs

[Real Alan]

While I agree selling gim/eim items should not be a thing. You are incorrect that it is not in osrs. You can sell unranked gim banks on osrs

 

 

Good point!  OSRS realizes there's an integrity issue with buying/selling gim bank -> therefor requires gim to unrank before trading

 

I understand allowing EIM/GIM trading brings in revenue for the server via gim removal tickets, but banning EIM/GIM trading and requiring ironman items be bought directly from Omicron also generates revenue.  All while maintaining the ironman integrity of no trading allowed.  

 

 

 

As for your realism merge/ironman merge argument. Ironmen 99% of the time sell gear to each other, and it requires a lot more effort and money to do so.  A realism account can simply trade other realism accounts for anything to progress, so I guess there's a bit of a difference there. 

 

My realism merge/ironman merge argument was a joke.  2 wrongs don't make a right. 

The only difference between trading on GIM and realism is the use of gim removal tickets and cooldowns.

The way I see it... If ironmen sold/bought gear to/from each other, they're not ironmen. 

The whole point of ironman is to not buy/sell gear and to get it by yourself or with your team.

If you want to sell gear to each other, that's what Realism is for.  

 

 

 

EIM was released in 2018, GIM in 2019, wouldn't make sense to start putting in more effort to resolve those issues starting 2023.   Additionally, there are some limiting factors added which makes it more difficult to sell/buy those ironmen items, personally havent sold or bought any of the items over those 4 years and it doesn't bother me if others will.

 

 

Realism was released in 2019 with a separate eco, but it still made sense to some of you guys to support making radical changes.  As a result, I figured it's never too late to discuss ironman integrity issues.

Staff could easily enforce the ironman aspect of GIM, ban public selling of ironman items, and require ironman items be purchased directly through custom donations to the server.  Instead, we look the other way and allow GIM/EIM to break the trading rules as long as they pay for the removal tickets.

 

 

 

Honestly not sure what this post is or why you feel the need to keep going and going? Starting to get a little weird & turning into an obsession. If you ever need to talk to someone I am here for you.

 

What's wrong?  Can't handle a different perspective?  This is a discussion thread so I'm encouraging you to talk.  Why make this personal?

Do you see any integrity issues with GIM/EIM trading?  Yes or no and how come?

 

 

 

The damage is long-done, allowing trades = profit for a business. No point bringing this up now tbh

 

Can make more profit by allowing GIM/EIM items to be purchased directly from the store.  I'd rather 100% of the money go to Alora than have 90% of it go to the GIM/EIM sellers and 10% go to the server via GIM/EIM removal tickets.  Plus, this way new players to Alora don't see people buying/selling GIM bank on yell, which delegitimizes the whole ironman game mode.

[Brambo]

What is the point of allowing GIM and EIM to buy items from the store instead of other players if they decide to buy items? Is it all about you dont want other gamemodes to make money when they are able to by selling these items? I get your point about the not realy an ironman when you buy stuff. But then dont make it possible to buy them from the store aswell, thats just complete bullshit. 

 

If a GIM decides to buy items, its their choice, other gims can make money from it wich is smart. They fucked this game mode along time ago. 

 

I have bought and staked gim items in the past. I ended up rebuilding just like a normal GIM, grinding the items myself and lending items from and to teammates (excactly how the gamemode is ment to be). 

 

If you dont like the fact that some GIM/EIM players want to buy their items, then just stick to your realism account and play that. Let others enjoy the game how they want to. Most GIM players play like a normal GIM, some GIM players buy stuff, and others can benefit from that. So what? Cant reverse this anymore, and no point of doing so. 

[Extremedanny]

Shouldnt have had the ability to trade since the release of these game modes and its too late too turn it back. However its up to the player themselves to actually grind their items on their accounts and consider themselves a "real" ironman. Atm gim and eim are just normie modes with prices being a bit higher.

[oijnmukfvrg]

Shame on those who bought items...

 

Not like this can be fixed now, anyway.

[Accident Man]

All iron man game modes in general are a clusterfuck here on Alora. 

 

I have not been here for very long, but players expressing their unhappiness in regards to the iron man game modes seems to be a day-to-day thing from what I have seen, and not just from regular players, but veterans and others alike, too. If the community converged and addressed the big problems with the iron man game modes earlier on, or voted differently in the past content polls, maybe changes and updates would have been put in place and the iron man game modes would have been better today. Unfortunately, due to the age of the iron man game modes, and certain things now being irreversible for obvious reasons, the current state of the iron man game modes is now a part of Alora.  

[Real Alan]

What is the point of allowing GIM and EIM to buy items from the store instead of other players if they decide to buy items?

 

 

Imagine buying a GIM/EIM tbow.  You would need to provide the 2x GIM removal tickets (2x250 tokens) + pay the person who sold you the GIM tbow.

This doesnt make any sense if you think about it.  

1. The gim player makes a couple billion from the sale, while the server gets a fraction of that (500 tokens -> 500m worth). 

2. Optimally, the server should be getting paid.  Not the gim player.  That money helps Alora do better and provide better service for all players  

3. The gim player shouldn't be selling items to other GIM groups, anyways.  The eco for GIM to sell stuff is the Normie/Classic eco. 

4. There shouldn't be a GIM eco for you to buy and trade items/banks on forums/yell.  That ruins the integrity of iron man with a group of friends.

5. It's basically saying... if you've got enough in-real life cash to give, you can play ironman and keep your ability to trade.  

5. Players who quit GIM are now incentivized to sell their banks to newer GIM/EIM players.

6. Take a few steps back, look at the bigger picture, and you'll realize you've basically got a whole gim life cycle structured around buying and selling ironman items. 

7. If there will always be a demand for endgame GIM items, why not make Alora the legitimate retailer.  All of the money goes straight into Omicron/the server. 

 

This is the equivalent of allowing players to buy Inferno capes directly from Omicron via custom donations/store. 

Paying someone else to do inferno for you -> ruins the game integrity -> plus the player (that's lacking integrity) profits rather than Omicron/server

 

 

 

If you dont like the fact that some GIM/EIM players want to buy their items, then just stick to your realism account and play that. Let others enjoy the game how they want to. Most GIM players play like a normal GIM, some GIM players buy stuff, and others can benefit from that. So what? Cant reverse this anymore, and no point of doing so. 

 

 

Great!  Now you know how the Realists felt when the staff & non-realism players started a suggestion + vote to merge a game mode they don't play.

Like... I'm not willing to try Realism right now... but hey... if you merge it... I'll promise to play! 

10 other ppl also agree with me... I can't provide a list for you to see... but trust bro...

realism eco is fucked... it's currently heavily manipulated by the elite 1%.   

Look 100k super restores!  Realism should be like OSRS not ironman.  

It's the elite 1%'s fault.  Definitely not because there's no TP for buy offers (only sell offers).

 

Flip that around.  I'm not willing to try gim right now because the gim integrity is fucked... but hey... if you fix it... I'll promise to play.

 

What my point?  

 

Just because the GIM integrity has been compromised for a long time does not mean it's too late for GIM to find some tegridy.